[vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch?

[Wupti]

Team Oldscotch veto (according to the rules) against playing a qualifying game vs Team Latecomers and team latecomers has to leave btt. now its time for team oldscotch do leave it too according to the rules...selfish behaviour....everything comes back

As i read this, this is all a matter of your grougde against team oldscotch and now you just want revenge? Come on grow up... I think you should be glad that Rule 17 exists at all. Without that there would have been no team revoltek, and they would have 3 defualt loses instead. But rule 17 makes it able to change the rules and let a new team revoltek join. Am I right?

[griffin1987]

Btw it's the 2 best teams who advance, and if oldschool is 1 of the 2 best teams in your opinion what's the problem in doing a rematch? Try to imagine it if you were in oldscotch situation.

Oh, I was sure I've said three times already I'm okay with doing a rematch...

About being in that situation: We (team) actually talked about what would happen if sieg-geil would've just forfeited their game and let oldscotch win. Then we'd be out of the tournament, if we didn't make enough kills. Of course I can't say for sure what we'd have done then, as you never know before it happens, but at that time we agreed that it were the rule of btt and it being our own fault for not performing well enough against sieg-geil. But, that's not important, as we aren't in that situation now

Edit: I also think the solution favored by smartie to be the best. In that case it wouldn't either be such a problem if sieg-geil would not agree to a rematch.

[Wupti]

So what i hear is that you have nothing against the suggestion progg/tez/smartie wrote
Then i think we have our solution

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If All team captains of the involved teams just could write in here if they agree with the solution favoured by smarties, we would be able to move on with the btt faster, which i think is in everyone's interest.

[griffin1987]

Well, oldscotch at least has to agree, and the matter with bug is a totally different where I don't have a say - it's up to them + oliver (+ ... ?) to decide. Also, I've already written Oliver that I have to check with my team first, and will write him as soon as I get the okay from the rest of my team (at the moment, at least smartie and gozo seem to agree, but as we all know, we need 4 people to play )

Thanks & best Regards

[olivercamel]

@griffin1987

I have striked out the sensitive lines where you think is offensive.

But I didn't want to insult your team, and I don't think what i said was wrong. Those words, may not be 100% accurate, but they were my feelings.

I did it because I agree with this point of yours:

but you're the btt organizer, and thus your word in that matter can't be taken as "only personal idea".

So I agree that if I am saying the words, it might be misleading to other people.

Also, making people feel offensive doesn't help to solve the problem.

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To everyone,

I have received the reply from FoelliX (Seig-GeiL), that they do NOT want a rematch.

In this case, I will wait for griffin1987 (OldSchool). If they agree for a rematch, we will have one between OldSchool/OldScotch.

If OldSchool doesn't want a rematch, we will wait 2 more days for the voting. Based on the voting result, we will see what to do.


As for team BuG, I have no idea. I will contact mc_ren first, and also boozers. I just feel the BuG players doesn't really care about the tournament as much as other teams do. This was why I didn't even complain about the K-D after Group A games.

[progg]

STOP PERSONAL FIGHTS GIRLS!

There's a problem.
And there are some propositions of solutions.

We can't let it go like this, becouse 2 games didn't happen. Therefore scores are not relevant.
Decisions made on not relevant reasons are bad and we want to avoid bad decisions.

The first solution is to restart whole torunament wich would be sutpid.
Finding some more sophisticated solution is better imo.

U know my proposition. I already wrote it 2 times. Anyway i'll repeat it.
1. Game betweens Oldschool and Oldscotch to find out who fails to advance to cup stage.
2. Game between sieg geil and winner of game 1 to find out who takes 1st place in group C.
3. Game between Bug and Boozers to find out who takes 2nd place in their group.

Grana already said that Boozers can play with BuG.
Oldschool should play with Oldschotch for obvious reason. One of those team had no chance to improve their k-d vs BeerTanks.
The team that won should play with Sieg-Geil to find out who should take the first place in group.

Oliver.
You should decide.
If u want to let people decide with the poll - make a new one - open poll so everybody can see how people vote.
Only BTT players should be able to vote.
Players from teams involved in this thread shouldn't be allowed to vote.

And finally the posibilities should be:
1. My proposition as most logical;)
2. Leave it old way.

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1 more thing i'd like to say b4 cup stage begins.
90min rule should be forgotten.
Imagine a game - 1 team has all cps. Base is pwned. Towers are down. 90min hits. DRAW. team with pwned base has 1 kill more and it wins!
Absurd? Yes. Possible? Yes.
Shall we have another bad situation like this one and more polls?
BT isn't about score. It's about destroying enemy's castle. Only this counts in the end.
I bet most of u won games when your team was loosing like 150-100 in kills.
90min rule will make this torunament suck, cuz when team realize they can't win they can just hull up hard. go 2-3 earths and camp for kills and delying the game till draw wich is not that hard for skilled team. We tried it with wupti in VEEERY lost game. We earned more than 30mins this way.

[UnifiedDoom]

1 more thing i'd like to say b4 cup stage begins.
90min rule should be forgotten.
Imagine a game - 1 team has all cps. Base is pwned. Towers are down. 90min hits. DRAW. team with pwned base has 1 kill more and it wins!
Absurd? Yes. Possible? Yes.
Shall we have another bad situation like this one and more polls?
BT isn't about score. It's about destroying enemy's castle. Only this counts in the end.
I bet most of u won games when your team was loosing like 150-100 in kills.
90min rule will make this torunament suck, cuz when team realize they can't win they can just hull up hard. go 2-3 earths and camp for kills and delying the game till draw wich is not that hard for skilled team. We tried it with wupti in VEEERY lost game. We earned more than 30mins this way.

It was already confirmed before this discussion that there would be no ties in the cup phase.

[LIoOoOoIL]

U know my proposition. I already wrote it 2 times. Anyway i'll repeat it.
1. Game betweens Oldschool and Oldscotch to find out who fails to advance to cup stage.
2. Game between sieg geil and winner of game 1 to find out who takes 1st place in group C.
3. Game between Bug and Boozers to find out who takes 2nd place in their group.

ok, this solution sounds fair, and so far the easierst way, which everyteam should accept. Since sieg-geil reachd the quater-finals already in any cases.
(if it get handeld like this, maybe try force the games already in this week, so the usuall schedule can goes on.)

[gozo1985]

just a question if sieg-geil dont want a rematch that means they are 2nd place for sure right? no mather who mins the rematch.

[olivercamel]

U know my proposition. I already wrote it 2 times. Anyway i'll repeat it.
1. Game betweens Oldschool and Oldscotch to find out who fails to advance to cup stage.
2. Game between sieg geil and winner of game 1 to find out who takes 1st place in group C.
3. Game between Bug and Boozers to find out who takes 2nd place in their group.

I saw you suggestion.

Now the thing is Seig-GeiL for sure doesn't want an extra match. Oldschool may be, but griffin needs to check with his team before give an official confirmation.

So it might be only an extra match between Oldschool/oldscotch.

Regarding BuG/Boozers, I sent a message to mc_ren. I will wait him first and then ask boozers. My feeling is mc_ren doesn't like to play more, because other members are not active for the tournament. Anyway, I will wait mc_ren first.

Only BTT players should be able to vote.
Players from teams involved in this thread shouldn't be allowed to vote.

If we really need to use the vote result, I think what you said here shall apply.

1 more thing i'd like to say b4 cup stage begins.
90min rule should be forgotten.

As other people said already, after the group phase games, there will be no draw anymore.

Overall i think the concept of "draw" is a good attempt in this tournament. It pushs the teams to attack more aggressively. (BTF-DevTeam game was a good example.)

It is just we need a better way to rank teams when they have equal points. Using K-D is certainly a bad idea.

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just a question if sieg-geil dont want a rematch that means they are 2nd place for sure right? no mather who mins the rematch.

This is actually a good question. If Seig-GeiL doesn't play the extra match, but only Oldschool/Oldscotch play, how do we rank the teams after the extra match?

I think if Oldschool win the extra match, they should be 1st rank, and Seig-GeiL 2nd. Because Oldschool is already 1st rank according to the old rule, if they win an extra match but end up as 2nd rank, it is not fair.

If Oldscotch wins the extra match, I'd say Oldscotch 1st rank and Seig-GeiL 2nd. Because Oldscotch won the game vs. Seig-GeiL before.

So anyway I'd say Seig-GeiL stay as 2nd rank, if they don't want to risk for an extra match.

[Max]

Well, for group A this is different. If TBBK would have play, BuG would have done the same thing than what happened in group C (delaying the game for better k/d ratio). That's the game and that's the rules. Otherwise, if we don't count (in group A) the match Boozers vs TBBK, Boozers are still qualified in quarter finals, which make a rematch absurd considering we have played the same time in the games (about 1h+ vs Anal) and still have a better k/d ratio.
I think i made my point
About group C, if they all want a rematch (Oldshool and Oldscotch) then why not do it? Sieg-Geil doesn't need (and doesn't want) to play one anyway, and that changes nothing but maybe give them the 1st rank.
Best regards !

[Terror-Sheep]

curry u should read the postings more carefully....yes we disagreed to play qualify games vs. latecomers with our veto....but oliver didnt accept it and gave that team about 24 hours more to registrate their team.....they didnt do that, so they couldnt join the btt.....actually its u who is turning the cases in the way he wants to....;)

Team Oldscotch veto (according to the rules) against playing a qualifying game vs Team Latecomers and team latecomers has to leave btt. now its time for team oldscotch do leave it too according to the rules...selfish behaviour....everything comes back

[Prokrastinat]

Well, for group A this is different. If TBBK would have play, BuG would have done the same thing than what happened in group C (delaying the game for better k/d ratio). That's the game and that's the rules. Otherwise, if we don't count (in group A) the match Boozers vs TBBK, Boozers are still qualified in quarter finals, which make a rematch absurd considering we have played the same time in the games (about 1h+ vs Anal) and still have a better k/d ratio.
I think i made my point
About group C, if they all want a rematch (Oldshool and Oldscotch) then why not do it? Sieg-Geil doesn't need (and doesn't want) to play one anyway, and that changes nothing but maybe give them the 1st rank.
Best regards !

Sorry Max but its not the same.

Because we didnt played at the same time u know? ( BuG vs Anal Round 2)

U guys could calculate the risk of playing against anal in round 3. So the situation was not the same.

I think u should understand what i mean.

[Terror-Sheep]

7/ K/D ratio is shit, using total assist divided by amount of min would be better ratio !!!!!

we will see if their will be a rematch or not.....
the most important thing is to look forward and remove that k/d ratio for the already mentioned reasons.

i think althend is on the right way with his suggestion...

[Max]

Well i understand that but still. You knew after our tie that u would win anyway cd TBBK and have about 80% chance tp loose vs anal and that would be the same for us. You knew that the difference would be made with k/d ratio in 90% of cases. Sure i understand you and what u mean, but still... Anyway i voted yes then i'm not against it but i don't understand. Rules are rules and we all knew about those especially after our first round. We both knew that.

[Prokrastinat]

Well i understand that but still. You knew after our tie that u would win anyway cd TBBK and have about 80% chance tp loose vs anal and that would be the same for us. You knew that the difference would be made with k/d ratio in 90% of cases. Sure i understand you and what u mean, but still... Anyway i voted yes then i'm not against it but i don't understand. Rules are rules and we all knew about those especially after our first round. We both knew that.

Well the thing is we were thinking that the TBBK Game could save our K/D-Ratio but its was not possible.

But when u dont want to do a Rematch. I can understand and accept it.

[Max]

I voted yes in the poll and i was about the first to do it then i'm not 100% against this idea and it's to Grana to decide it after all. I just tell my opinion. After all we are here to play more than to win (to much good teams in here :p).
No offense at all to you or anyone else.

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And still, without this match vs TBBK we are still ahead, that's just my point

[eSVau]

7/ K/D ratio is shit, using total assist divided by amount of min would be better ratio !!!!![/color]

The main problem with k/d it doesn't say much about who's the better team. You can win with negativ k/d ratio. You can also lose with postive k/d ratio.
Assists at least tells something about teamplay - ego hunter who just waiting with his porter/poison vs. team action to rape the enemy.

I think the only number which is close to measure the quality of a game is the time itself.
A short game means one team was way better than the other, a long game means both teams where equal.

[progg]

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[quote='gozo1985' pid='33296' dateline='1331027818']
just a question if sieg-geil dont want a rematch that means they are 2nd place for sure right? no mather who mins the rematch.

This is actually a good question. If Seig-GeiL doesn't play the extra match, but only Oldschool/Oldscotch play, how do we rank the teams after the extra match?

I think if Oldschool win the extra match, they should be 1st rank, and Seig-GeiL 2nd. Because Oldschool is already 1st rank according to the old rule, if they win an extra match but end up as 2nd rank, it is not fair.

If Oldscotch wins the extra match, I'd say Oldscotch 1st rank and Seig-GeiL 2nd. Because Oldscotch won the game vs. Seig-GeiL before.

So anyway I'd say Seig-GeiL stay as 2nd rank, if they don't want to risk for an extra match.

I think different.
Since we agreed on two points:
1. K-D sux.
2. Sieg Geil is qualified anyway.

We shouldn't use current rank for further solutions. Only the results of vs game.

Oldschotch won with SiegGeil
SiegGeil won with Oldschool.

Therefore i think:
1. if oldscotch win the game with oldschool they should be Rank1.
2. If Oldschool win the game they should be rank 2 becouse they lost with sieggiel.

I think this way becouse:
1. All teams have the same amount of points.
2. We DON'T count K-D.
2. If oldschool and sieggiel qualify to cup stage it would be unfair for sieggiel if oldschool is first. Both team has same points. Oldschool lost game with sieggeil. Sieggeil should be first.

[Tez.Sick]

Hmmmmm......... Sieg-Geil 1.place.......sounds good!

Ok ok, progg got the best idea