Adjust raider and distributor

[griffin1987]

After playing the raider for quite some time now, and the distributor during the beta and now that it's out, I've got the following suggestions:

Raider:

1. Make the first skill cost more mana and remove the reset ability. Also make it deal more damage at high levels.
Why?
Currently I think it's a skill which can be very overpowered at start if in the hand of someone who is good in key-spamming and clicking, while way too hard to use for new or not so adept players (or people who arent wanking their keyboard that hard), which makes it totally newbie-unfriendly. And the very overpowered can be really way overpowered, especially playing on a lane (while it's pretty okay if you play in mid normally), while the skill becomes practically useless later on (which would be okay, as this is a start tank, but some other start tanks don't have this problem so much, so I think it should be adapted a bit)

2. The healing skill becomes OP lategame (remind you, this is a start tank). It should not be able to heal > 7k hp at once that easily, which it is right now. I would suggest making part of the heal a fixed value and the other part a smaller percentage value. Of course 7k heal would still be able then, but you would need way more hp for that to happen. E.g. reduce percentage to half of what it is now and add a constant 200 hp per level - that way it should get a tad stronger at start, and not OP lategame anymore.

3. The maximum damage of the ulti should be increased on later levels - it seems to me that it scales pretty badly at the moment, doing totally well at start, and becoming very weak later on.

4. Increase clickable area of raider - while the gfx of the raider is way larger than helicopter, it's way harder for me to click it. Don't know how many other people have the same problem, or maybe it's just me, but I would like to have a larger region clickable if that is possible.


Distributor:
1. The reactive armor skill is really very cool and tactical interesting. I only have one problem with it: It certainly gives advantage to certain weapon types. Energy torpedo for example practically becomes a great heal to the distributor because of the speed the green ball travels and the damage being all at once - at the same time, any weapon firing multiple shots or faster makes the reactive armor seem pretty useless. I'm totally unsure on this point, but I will still suggest it, so you can tell your oppinion, but I would suggest adding to the "blocks damage at most X times" a "(block lasts 0.3 seconds for at most of 300dmg)" (numbers can be variable or not). This way, it wouldn't be completely useless versus something like a flamer, poison magic, laser etc., while still not becoming overpowered.

2. The skill with money for support points is a cool idea I think, but I would have really prefered that on a mid-tier tank instead of a starter one (I also wasn't sure on this one, which is why I didn't post it while map was still beta). Problem is, you don't have the chance to make that many support points at start, and I wouldn't want to encourage people further to stay longer with their starter tank (that's when you end up with someone playing heli for nearly 2 hours). I got no real idea on how to solve it except for maybe swap it with a skill of the darkness tank. But maybe you either have a better Idea or tell me why what I'm saying is bs (I don't mind, if you keep it on topic and not start getting personal )

Thanks for reading,

Cheers

[Max]

Hi,

Actually, about raider, the only change i would keep is the first one. Maybe it would be good to make spell last 15 sec on enemy tank (20 is too much imo) and maybe up a little the mana cost. But not mana cost + reset ability, the spell will be going too weak this way.

About 2 and 3 i don't think there need a huge change : the heal skill become really strong in late game you are totally right, but in late game, even a 10k tank can be killed in 3 seconds and heal spell last 5 seconds, doesn't it? With a non start tank a raider isn't imba in late game. Of course with 2 opponents with same skills.

And about ultimate : this is a start tank. And as other start tanks, ulti is more or less weak in late game. This one still give you the possibility to save your ass with a back tp, which is strong enough I guess.

About distributor, I didn't play it in league, but I got an opinion about the reactive armor : it's about strategy. If you are against a player using/not using it, you will get faster/slower speed weapons, as you can change ground to air when you face a demo who skilled artillery or get some nets when you face an air tank. Each spell have advantages and disadvantages.

Btw this tank is really a good idea : it will promote team play (mostly in mid) which is too much forgotten, mostly on ranked game...

Greetz

[griffin1987]

Thanks for reading and your oppinion on this matter.

Regarding raider:
Shortening the time would not change it's power, but make it very hard to build up damage by casting it multiple times on the same target. For the heal - saying that a tank can be killed is not an argument for proving that a skill isn't overpowered You have to think it like that: raider costs less than 2k and is able to have heal of 7k+ hp without losing a single inventory slot. Oh, and it's instant heal, so that also makes it better than a repair pack.

killing a 10k tank in 3 seconds doesn't change anything about heal - if you only enable it as soon as you get attacked you're doing it wrong most of the time anyway. It's normally not a problem if you activate the skill, wait a second or 2, and then use ulti to jump onto enemy, maybe even activating thorns. In that case you have dmg reduction + 7k+ heal + free port (with automatic back port) + damage from ulti. I think that's okay, except for the 7k heal, which you can have as early as 25 mins into the game - show me how you kill a 10k hp tank in 3 seconds at that time

Reg. Ulti: You can't get back by using it. It's not a one way porter after all - and that's also what most people do wrong when starting to play raider. That skill is very seldom usefull for escaping (there are situations where it might be, but generally it's an agressive skill for attacking)

Distributor:
I agree with you that it's about strategy, and also, that the tank is very cool in terms of promoting team play. Problem is, what you say can only be applied when playing on a lane - in mid, you aren't playing vs a single player. For the rest I don't really get how it pertains to distributor? Or did you just mean that as a general statement? (ofc every spell has advantages and disadvantages - but it's about cost/effect relation averaging all applicable situations)

[Max]

About distributor, yes I said that as a general statement

About raider I get what you mean. The fact is when you see enemy using healer and waiting 2 seconds, you can start to run away
More seriously about healer, I think the problem might be in the fact it's an instant healer. All healers in the game changed to be spread over 5 seconds. Or let's say 1 second at level 1 spell, 3 seconds level 2 etc... to finish around 7-8 seconds at level 5. At level 1 you heal around 150 hp which is sensless to spread in 5 seconds, but when you heal 7k hp (at level 5 spell) it would balance the spell a little bit to make it this way.

About first spell : "shortening time would not change it's power". Well yes and no. If it's harder to cast multiple times the spell, it low a little bit it's power. Mostly in early game when you fight with a scout for example : you got 700 hp and better speed. But range of this spell force you to go in your cp to avoid the 450 damage of the triple cast for 20 seconds ! I saw that some times while I got a raider and playing vs scout : triple cast and shot : scout is forced to run to cp of he dies. That's why I told about time. About power I don't think this one is a lot op.

[griffin1987]

The suggestion about removing instant heal is a good idea I think, thanks for that!

I would second that as a suggestion.

Regarding scout needs to run to cp: I think that could be "fixed" as well if you just add a maximum range at which the charges stay, say 2000 or so. That way, if he runs far enough away, it could instantly discharge (without damage of course).

Regarding OP of that skill at start, take the following example:
At level 3 of the skill, which you can reach rather fast on lane, it does 200 dmg (which is splash btw!), and you can cast it multiple times per second if you go into a fight (because of automatic reset when you get hit). So that can amount to 400dps or more (with much concentration even I can cast it three times a second against an enemy with high fire rate in total, and I'm not that good a keyspammer). And you can keep that up for about 10 times - which would in that case be 2k damage in maybe 4 seconds. Yes raider costs the most of the randomable start tanks, but I think it should be about the air equivalent of the demolisher (in terms of power) - but the demolisher can't do 2k dmg in 4 seconds with a single skill at level 7 ( I think you need level 7 to get it to level 3, but you may correct me )

[Exodus]

Damn, you guys got it yourselves. The change about the healing was actually something I was intending to change about the Raider, since I also figured that maybe not the amount of healing is the problem, but rather the fact that you gain it instantly.

The Static Charge might be in need of another remake, I haven't decided on anything there yet.


And about the Distributor, you are quite right, when you say that it serves as a way of teaching players the ways of the support kind of style. This is part of the reason, why that skill is on a starter tank. Gotta teach them early ;)
Also, when you say that the armor skill is less useful mid, you are (mostly) right. Just as right as you would be, when you say that the support gold skill is useless on lane. For me it's not about viability in all situations for each skill individually, but rather about different styles of playing the tank. The tank was obviously designed as a support, but I didn't want to restrict it to that role (which it pretty much could only viably use in mid). Because of that I gave the tank a means of being played differently, to make it more interesting. Which is pretty much the reason why the skills work the way they currently do. I'm not saying it's the best way, I just wanted you guys to know why I did it that way.

[griffin1987]

Did I overlook it, or have you forgotten about changing the raider healing? Because recently when I played raider the hp went up instantly again instead of over time .. ?

[Exodus]

Well, this is awkward. It does indeed look like I forgot to implement that. Huh.

Looks like I have to do that for the next version. Thanks for mentioning it again.

[EarthR]

i have a suggestion about static charge. Reduce the "stacking" at lvls 1-2, meaning you can only place 1 charge on an enemy tank when the skill lvl is 1 and 2 because thats what makes it so op at early stages.